MSNBC Update: Terror in the Skies, Again?
Last night (Thursday, July 22), MSNBC's Scarborough Country featured another follow-up segment on Annie Jacobsen's article "Terror in the Skies, Again?" The transcripts from that segment are below and are worth a read.
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, we've been discussing Northwest Flight 327 all week. The behavior of 14 Middle Eastern men was enough to make one couple fear the worst. Fortunately, the flight landed safely and was met by federal authorities.
But, as WNBC's investigative reporter Scott Weinberger discovered, in questioning the 14 men, the federal officers failed to uncover a key piece of information.
Here's Scott's recap of the story and his shocking discovery.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCOTT WEINBERGER, WNBC REPORTER (voice-over): Ann Jacobsen and her husband, Kevin, along with their 4 1/2-year-old son, were on that flight. And before the gate even left the gate, she says her husband already had an uneasy feeling.
ANNIE JACOBSEN, JOURNALIST: Kevin turned me to me and said, I think we should get off this flight. And we didn't.
WEINBERGER: But at that point, the couple felt like their concerns could have just been nerves. But that reasoning would not last long.
KEVIN JACOBSEN, ABOARD NORTHWEST AIRLINES FLIGHT: Well, I noticed when the gentleman went to the restroom with a yellow T-shirt, passes his seat. And when he gets to the middle of the flight, he gives the thumbs up to two or three other Middle Eastern men sitting behind him, and then continues back to the rear of the flight. There was one of the Middle Eastern sitting in first class, and he was wearing sunglasses. He was also always standing right in front of the cockpit door.
A. JACOBSEN: I said, honey, I think you should talk to the flight attendant.
K. JACOBSEN: She said, we are aware of it. The pilot is aware of it. She said that, we are passing notes to each other.
Then, when they were passing drinks, the flight attendant came over to me and she leaned down and she whispered and she said that there are air marshals sitting all around you.
WEINBERGER: But sources say the federal air marshals chose not to act, maintaining their undercover role, but prepared if the men made a move to hijack the aircraft.
But that would not happen. The plane would land safely in Los Angeles, and the men questioned by the FBI and the U.S. immigration authorities. Sources say they told investigators they were a group of musicians from Syria traveling to a gig near Los Angeles. Agents, we're told, ran the men through every possible data bank and terrorist watch list.
But nothing came back, so they were released. Several sources tell News Channel 4 that all 14 men were traveling with expired visas. And sources say federal agents who spent several hours with the men failed at one of the most simple of tasks, just checking the date.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: With me now is WNBC reporter investigative report Scott Weinberger.
Scott, FBI member and immigration people sat down with these men. They questioned them. And, of course, afterwards they said, hey, everything checked out. But everything didn‘t really check out. These people missed something as simple as visas that were expired. How did that happen?
WEINBERGER: Well, Joe, let's talk about what we know happened right before the plane landed. We know that several of the passengers talked to the flight attendants and gave them information. That information was then given to the pilot. The pilot called ahead and told authorities that when the plane lands, they need help. They need people to come to the aircraft and take care of the situation.
When the aircraft landed in Los Angeles, it was met by several agents of the JTTF, joint terrorism task force, as well as ICE, which is Immigration Customs Enforcements. They took the gentleman off the plane. They did what they called an interview. It was not an interrogation. There was no criminal activity, not a reason to do the interrogation part of it. But they interviewed them all individually.
And it went on, Joe, for probably almost two hours. Now, they looked at the big picture. Is this a situation of terrorism? Are these people at all possibly connected with any form or links of terrorism? They went through various lists that they have in a database which is stored in all the major law enforcement computer.
After going through all those things, now, Joe, looking at the big picture of terrorism, something like a visa would be an easy question to ask. We know and my sources are telling me that each individual member that they talked to, these 12 people or so, the 14, they took their visa and made copies of them and put them as part of an investigative file.
But my sources are telling me that the investigators never looked down to check the date. The expiration was three weeks prior to the flight ever taking off.
SCARBOROUGH: That's remarkable. So you have immigration officials there. You have FBI officials there.
WEINBERGER: That's right.
SCARBOROUGH: Law enforcement people swarming around these men. And the most basic of questions, "Are you in the United States legally?" was a question that they botched. These guys -- I have been talking about Inspector Clouseau as it relates to Sandy Berger and his bumbling in classified documents.
It looks they're like a bunch of Inspector Clouseaus around here that couldn't even answer the basic question of whether these 14 Syrians who are suspected of terrorism were in the United States legally. I would guess the FBI and the immigration authorities have to be very embarrassed by what you've uncovered.
WEINBERGER: Well, red-faced to say the least, Joe, for sure. But, at this point, really what they have to look at is what is the level of concern when these men come to shore, when they make it to Los Angeles?
And I guess at this point, from what my sources are telling me, is, they wanted to go first and look at the bigger picture. Are these gentlemen involved in terrorism? And, at the end of the day, they let them go without ever checking the expiration date on the visa.
SCARBOROUGH: Unbelievable. I would say one of the biggest issues would be, are these men in the country legally? I can't believe they bobbled that one.
I want to bring in right now, though, Michael Smerconish. He's a radio talk show host. He is also the author of the upcoming book, "Flying Blind: How Political Correctness Continues to Compromise Airline Safety Post 9/11." And I also want to bring in flight attendant Deborah Volpe.
Let's start with you, though, Michael.
Are you surprised by what you're hearing about this flight, where 14 Syrians are allowed to run around the plane? And I'm just going to come out and say it. If 14 Anglo-Saxon high school students from Kansas who were on a band trip to Los Angeles did the same thing, the flight attendants would go back and tell them to sit down and put their seat belts on. Do you think political correctness played into the fact that they let these 14 Syrians run around the plane and break all the rules?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Absolutely. Absolutely, Joe.
It is a no-brainer. And it is symptomatic of what's going on with regard to airline security. The fact of the matter is, we are in a war against Arab religious extremists. And nobody wants to face that fact. And, instead, we walk around literally flying blind to the fact that the 19 hijackers on 9/11 had a variety of commonalities.
And those commonalities were their country of origin or countries of origin.
They were all from the Northeast. They are all follower of Islam. Dare I say, they all look alike. And people just don't want to these factors into consideration. And I think it is insanity. I‘m for this administration, but it's the Bush administration that will not come to terms with the reality of the enemy that we face.
SCARBOROUGH: OK, what are the dangers here, though, that you -- by making these overgeneralizations, a lot of civil libertarians are saying, hey, you are sounding just like FDR in 1942 when he started throwing Japanese into interment camps. How do you separate those two activities, the rights of Arab-Americans to move freely across the United States and the needs of this country to protect itself from some people that, you know -- you can narrow it down, the people that want to blow up American targets, the chances are good, they are going to be Islamic extremists.
They are going to be males. They are going to be like 20 to 45 years old. How do you balance those conflicting needs?
SMERCONISH: I have to tell, Joe, that when you put civil liberties in one hand and when you put the common good and protecting Americans in the other, I think that that balance tips in favor of protecting America.
I flew to Florida recently and my 8-year-old son was singled out for secondary questioning. Now, that's insanity. And in the words of John Lehman of the 9/11 Commission, we have got to stop the process of pulling out of line 85-year-old women with aluminum walkers. I am simply saying what your audience is thinking. And no one else wants to have this conversation.
And if I might add, having perused the 500-plus pages of that report today, unfortunately, they failed to deal with this issue.
SCARBOROUGH: And I don't know why people can't say what you've come out and said. The fact is, we are at war right now with Islamic terrorists. Does that mean all Arabs are bad? No. But it means that we are at war right now with Islamic terrorists who want to destroy our way of life.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Go ahead.
SMERCONISH: If you'll pardon me this, I'm not saying that you pull out of line and give the rubber hose and the stack of phone books to everybody who is of Arab descent.
But common sense dictates that if a group of 14 Arab males in that age group are flying together, before they get on that plane in Detroit headed for L.a., they are the ones who need to be subject to secondary screening.
SCARBOROUGH: And not your 8-year-old son.
Deborah, let me bring you in here.
What is a flight attendant's role? I know you responded to our show with an e-mail after you saw the original interview with the Jacobsens. Have you seen similar incidents on your flights?
DEBORAH VOLPE, FLIGHT ATTENDANT: We're really concerned about erratic behavior by any passenger, irregardless of their ethnic background.
And we have seen different types of situations occur. And it runs the gamut from if it is one particular religious group or one ethnic background. So, flight attendants are very concerned that we don‘t have specific airline security training that address these issues. The flight deck, some pilots have guns. We have some air marshals, but the flight attendants, the last line of defense, we have nothing.
SCARBOROUGH: Why not?
VOLPE: Ask our politicians.
SCARBOROUGH: Why not?
VOLPE: Well, it's really -- it was mandated that we were supposed to get airline security training. The TSA has left this up to the individual airline management teams to come up with these security programs, these training programs, which are not effective. Some run anywhere from a six-minute video to maybe two hours.
And, at this point, we're waiting for the TSA to mandate this. They mandate certain things, but not the most basic things that can be taken care of that won't cost the airline a dime.
SCARBOROUGH: And, you know, you're exactly right, Deborah. Flight attendants are the last line of defense. Thanks for being with us.
Michael, thank you.
Scott, we greatly appreciate it. Great report.
We'll be right back in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY in a second.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: You know we want to hear from you. If you were on Northwest Flight 327, please e-mail us at Joe@MSNBC.com. We want to talk to you and we want to get you on our show.
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, we've been discussing Northwest Flight 327 all week. The behavior of 14 Middle Eastern men was enough to make one couple fear the worst. Fortunately, the flight landed safely and was met by federal authorities.
But, as WNBC's investigative reporter Scott Weinberger discovered, in questioning the 14 men, the federal officers failed to uncover a key piece of information.
Here's Scott's recap of the story and his shocking discovery.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCOTT WEINBERGER, WNBC REPORTER (voice-over): Ann Jacobsen and her husband, Kevin, along with their 4 1/2-year-old son, were on that flight. And before the gate even left the gate, she says her husband already had an uneasy feeling.
ANNIE JACOBSEN, JOURNALIST: Kevin turned me to me and said, I think we should get off this flight. And we didn't.
WEINBERGER: But at that point, the couple felt like their concerns could have just been nerves. But that reasoning would not last long.
KEVIN JACOBSEN, ABOARD NORTHWEST AIRLINES FLIGHT: Well, I noticed when the gentleman went to the restroom with a yellow T-shirt, passes his seat. And when he gets to the middle of the flight, he gives the thumbs up to two or three other Middle Eastern men sitting behind him, and then continues back to the rear of the flight. There was one of the Middle Eastern sitting in first class, and he was wearing sunglasses. He was also always standing right in front of the cockpit door.
A. JACOBSEN: I said, honey, I think you should talk to the flight attendant.
K. JACOBSEN: She said, we are aware of it. The pilot is aware of it. She said that, we are passing notes to each other.
Then, when they were passing drinks, the flight attendant came over to me and she leaned down and she whispered and she said that there are air marshals sitting all around you.
WEINBERGER: But sources say the federal air marshals chose not to act, maintaining their undercover role, but prepared if the men made a move to hijack the aircraft.
But that would not happen. The plane would land safely in Los Angeles, and the men questioned by the FBI and the U.S. immigration authorities. Sources say they told investigators they were a group of musicians from Syria traveling to a gig near Los Angeles. Agents, we're told, ran the men through every possible data bank and terrorist watch list.
But nothing came back, so they were released. Several sources tell News Channel 4 that all 14 men were traveling with expired visas. And sources say federal agents who spent several hours with the men failed at one of the most simple of tasks, just checking the date.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: With me now is WNBC reporter investigative report Scott Weinberger.
Scott, FBI member and immigration people sat down with these men. They questioned them. And, of course, afterwards they said, hey, everything checked out. But everything didn‘t really check out. These people missed something as simple as visas that were expired. How did that happen?
WEINBERGER: Well, Joe, let's talk about what we know happened right before the plane landed. We know that several of the passengers talked to the flight attendants and gave them information. That information was then given to the pilot. The pilot called ahead and told authorities that when the plane lands, they need help. They need people to come to the aircraft and take care of the situation.
When the aircraft landed in Los Angeles, it was met by several agents of the JTTF, joint terrorism task force, as well as ICE, which is Immigration Customs Enforcements. They took the gentleman off the plane. They did what they called an interview. It was not an interrogation. There was no criminal activity, not a reason to do the interrogation part of it. But they interviewed them all individually.
And it went on, Joe, for probably almost two hours. Now, they looked at the big picture. Is this a situation of terrorism? Are these people at all possibly connected with any form or links of terrorism? They went through various lists that they have in a database which is stored in all the major law enforcement computer.
After going through all those things, now, Joe, looking at the big picture of terrorism, something like a visa would be an easy question to ask. We know and my sources are telling me that each individual member that they talked to, these 12 people or so, the 14, they took their visa and made copies of them and put them as part of an investigative file.
But my sources are telling me that the investigators never looked down to check the date. The expiration was three weeks prior to the flight ever taking off.
SCARBOROUGH: That's remarkable. So you have immigration officials there. You have FBI officials there.
WEINBERGER: That's right.
SCARBOROUGH: Law enforcement people swarming around these men. And the most basic of questions, "Are you in the United States legally?" was a question that they botched. These guys -- I have been talking about Inspector Clouseau as it relates to Sandy Berger and his bumbling in classified documents.
It looks they're like a bunch of Inspector Clouseaus around here that couldn't even answer the basic question of whether these 14 Syrians who are suspected of terrorism were in the United States legally. I would guess the FBI and the immigration authorities have to be very embarrassed by what you've uncovered.
WEINBERGER: Well, red-faced to say the least, Joe, for sure. But, at this point, really what they have to look at is what is the level of concern when these men come to shore, when they make it to Los Angeles?
And I guess at this point, from what my sources are telling me, is, they wanted to go first and look at the bigger picture. Are these gentlemen involved in terrorism? And, at the end of the day, they let them go without ever checking the expiration date on the visa.
SCARBOROUGH: Unbelievable. I would say one of the biggest issues would be, are these men in the country legally? I can't believe they bobbled that one.
I want to bring in right now, though, Michael Smerconish. He's a radio talk show host. He is also the author of the upcoming book, "Flying Blind: How Political Correctness Continues to Compromise Airline Safety Post 9/11." And I also want to bring in flight attendant Deborah Volpe.
Let's start with you, though, Michael.
Are you surprised by what you're hearing about this flight, where 14 Syrians are allowed to run around the plane? And I'm just going to come out and say it. If 14 Anglo-Saxon high school students from Kansas who were on a band trip to Los Angeles did the same thing, the flight attendants would go back and tell them to sit down and put their seat belts on. Do you think political correctness played into the fact that they let these 14 Syrians run around the plane and break all the rules?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Absolutely. Absolutely, Joe.
It is a no-brainer. And it is symptomatic of what's going on with regard to airline security. The fact of the matter is, we are in a war against Arab religious extremists. And nobody wants to face that fact. And, instead, we walk around literally flying blind to the fact that the 19 hijackers on 9/11 had a variety of commonalities.
And those commonalities were their country of origin or countries of origin.
They were all from the Northeast. They are all follower of Islam. Dare I say, they all look alike. And people just don't want to these factors into consideration. And I think it is insanity. I‘m for this administration, but it's the Bush administration that will not come to terms with the reality of the enemy that we face.
SCARBOROUGH: OK, what are the dangers here, though, that you -- by making these overgeneralizations, a lot of civil libertarians are saying, hey, you are sounding just like FDR in 1942 when he started throwing Japanese into interment camps. How do you separate those two activities, the rights of Arab-Americans to move freely across the United States and the needs of this country to protect itself from some people that, you know -- you can narrow it down, the people that want to blow up American targets, the chances are good, they are going to be Islamic extremists.
They are going to be males. They are going to be like 20 to 45 years old. How do you balance those conflicting needs?
SMERCONISH: I have to tell, Joe, that when you put civil liberties in one hand and when you put the common good and protecting Americans in the other, I think that that balance tips in favor of protecting America.
I flew to Florida recently and my 8-year-old son was singled out for secondary questioning. Now, that's insanity. And in the words of John Lehman of the 9/11 Commission, we have got to stop the process of pulling out of line 85-year-old women with aluminum walkers. I am simply saying what your audience is thinking. And no one else wants to have this conversation.
And if I might add, having perused the 500-plus pages of that report today, unfortunately, they failed to deal with this issue.
SCARBOROUGH: And I don't know why people can't say what you've come out and said. The fact is, we are at war right now with Islamic terrorists. Does that mean all Arabs are bad? No. But it means that we are at war right now with Islamic terrorists who want to destroy our way of life.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Go ahead.
SMERCONISH: If you'll pardon me this, I'm not saying that you pull out of line and give the rubber hose and the stack of phone books to everybody who is of Arab descent.
But common sense dictates that if a group of 14 Arab males in that age group are flying together, before they get on that plane in Detroit headed for L.a., they are the ones who need to be subject to secondary screening.
SCARBOROUGH: And not your 8-year-old son.
Deborah, let me bring you in here.
What is a flight attendant's role? I know you responded to our show with an e-mail after you saw the original interview with the Jacobsens. Have you seen similar incidents on your flights?
DEBORAH VOLPE, FLIGHT ATTENDANT: We're really concerned about erratic behavior by any passenger, irregardless of their ethnic background.
And we have seen different types of situations occur. And it runs the gamut from if it is one particular religious group or one ethnic background. So, flight attendants are very concerned that we don‘t have specific airline security training that address these issues. The flight deck, some pilots have guns. We have some air marshals, but the flight attendants, the last line of defense, we have nothing.
SCARBOROUGH: Why not?
VOLPE: Ask our politicians.
SCARBOROUGH: Why not?
VOLPE: Well, it's really -- it was mandated that we were supposed to get airline security training. The TSA has left this up to the individual airline management teams to come up with these security programs, these training programs, which are not effective. Some run anywhere from a six-minute video to maybe two hours.
And, at this point, we're waiting for the TSA to mandate this. They mandate certain things, but not the most basic things that can be taken care of that won't cost the airline a dime.
SCARBOROUGH: And, you know, you're exactly right, Deborah. Flight attendants are the last line of defense. Thanks for being with us.
Michael, thank you.
Scott, we greatly appreciate it. Great report.
We'll be right back in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY in a second.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: You know we want to hear from you. If you were on Northwest Flight 327, please e-mail us at Joe@MSNBC.com. We want to talk to you and we want to get you on our show.
